Ken Barnes (grammy Voter) On Idol Grammy Noms (Etrain

QUOTE

Best new artist is another story. I can envision a lot of Daughtry fans going down that list and saying, "Feist? Huh? Ledisi? Who? Paramore? Do they hand out free crack as part of the voting process?" (Taylor Swift, country's emerging-artist winner, and Amy Winehouse seem like slam-dunks to me.) But again, think artistry, in the context of a voting body that is mostly made up of veteran music industry professionals, many of whom work in the technical (engineering, production, other studio-type gigs) realms. They're going to think Feist is novel, entertaining and quirky, and top of mind thanks to her recent iPod-commercial exposure. They'd be impressed by R&B cult artist Ledisi's vocal chops. I'm not sure why most of the voters went for Paramore, but I can hear it -- really interesting new rock band. Whereas Daughtry is not going to sound all that fresh to those jaded ears (even Chris' biggest fans would have trouble making a case for his originality).

That's how I read it, anyway. I'm kind of disappointed Elliott didn't make it, though, but he may have faced similar problems of not sounding fresh to the voters' ears.

Idols in the Grammy nominations - Idol Chatter

I think I understand where he may be coming from. Although Elliott is arguably the best male vocalist on the scene right now, he isn't something "new". I'd say that he's more of an upgrade of what's out right now (but Taylor Swift's BNA nomination defies that logic, so why the heck did SHE get nominated?).

Still, I'm glad that he at least wanted Elliott to snag a BNA nod.

EDIT: Hmmm...I see that this was already mentioned in the other thread. My bad :)

I'm with Ken.........
I'm kinda disapointed too.

Some who have never won a Grammy: Led Zeppelin, Diana Ross, Backstreet Boys, Queen, Jewel, Neil Young, Bob Marley, Janis Joplin, Grateful Dead, Bon Jovi, The Doors, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Who, Buddy Holly

Go figure...

Elliott sounds fresh to me because it has been a long long time since I heard a voice I got really excited about.. They call Elliott old school. Compared with todays music , I call him solid , awesome, and one of a kind. Now that is fresh to my ears!!!!

Last year we got to see Mary J and Gnarls Barkley, this year , not much to speak about at the grammys..

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I don't see any problem with discussing varied opinions about what could have happened or to speculate on potential developments with Elliott's career - What I don't see is passing outright judgement on any decision he or his management makes, because we do not and never will have all the facts that went into making some of these decisions. Will some turn out to be less successful than others - probably because that is inevitable. I just can't categorically say I know anything that has been done is wrong - so I just enjoy the discussions and speculation and keep doing what we, as part of his promotion team, have been asked to do.

I do think keeping the faith is important at this point in his career. These discussions remind me of this time last year when we didn't know if a record was ever going to be made...

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I so agree...E has professionals he has on his payroll to be critics and offer advice...and he can read and see the criticisms offered by others..I think every star needs FANS to cheer, be thrilled and just love him/her..Why else be motivated to create art if not for like-minded people who "get" what you are doing??? Just for money or fame? I don't think that is the major part of the picture for E...I think the fans should do THEIR job and be FANS first and foremost! Otherwise we're falling down on the job...our legitimate role to play...

QUOTE (EEEEvon @ Dec 7 2007, 09:53 AM)

Some who have never won a Grammy: Led Zeppelin, Diana Ross, Backstreet Boys, Queen, Jewel, Neil Young, Bob Marley, Janis Joplin, Grateful Dead, Bon Jovi, The Doors, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Who, Buddy Holly

Go figure...

Wow didn't know that. And 2 of my favorites Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt had out a dozen albums before they were recognized.

QUOTE (itslate @ Dec 7 2007, 01:02 PM)

QUOTE (EEEEvon @ Dec 7 2007, 09:53 AM)

Some who have never won a Grammy: Led Zeppelin, Diana Ross, Backstreet Boys, Queen, Jewel, Neil Young, Bob Marley, Janis Joplin, Grateful Dead, Bon Jovi, The Doors, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Who, Buddy Holly

Go figure...

Wow didn't know that. And 2 of my favorites Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt had out a dozen albums before they were recognized.

That's right - it took Bonnie Raitt almost 20 years to finally get her due.I went to many of her concerts in the years preceding the grammy and she always seemed to play for good sized crowds of dedicated fans and seemed very happy doing what she did.

I didn't realize the same was true of Jackson Browne. It's a funny industry, but really all that matters to the real artist is that they are making music and that people are enjoying it. The rest is gravy.

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think anyone reading this board like his crew (which I believe does) may be looking for opinions. Sort of like this is a research thread. So why keep our opinions to ourselves. I agree, as the biggest fans, they look to us for truthful opinions, what is making and keeping us fans. I've yet to read anything other than heart felt feelings here.

QUOTE (lindagt @ Dec 7 2007, 12:09 PM)

QUOTE (itslate @ Dec 7 2007, 01:02 PM)

QUOTE (EEEEvon @ Dec 7 2007, 09:53 AM)

Some who have never won a Grammy: Led Zeppelin, Diana Ross, Backstreet Boys, Queen, Jewel, Neil Young, Bob Marley, Janis Joplin, Grateful Dead, Bon Jovi, The Doors, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Who, Buddy Holly

Go figure...

Wow didn't know that. And 2 of my favorites Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt had out a dozen albums before they were recognized.

That's right - it took Bonnie Raitt almost 20 years to finally get her due.I went to many of her concerts in the years preceding the grammy and she always seemed to play for good sized crowds of dedicated fans and seemed very happy doing what she did.

I didn't realize the same was true of Jackson Browne. It's a funny industry, but really all that matters to the real artist is that they are making music and that people are enjoying it. The rest is gravy.

Yes Linda I've been to almost all Bonnie Raitt's local concerts and they were sell outs. Funny thing is most make it to Rock and Roll's hall of fame anyway, despite no grammy's. I wouldn't put so much stock in this.

eta: I love doing cryptograms. I found a quote from Bonnie Raitt: I think my fans will follow me into our combined old age. Real musicians and real fans stay together for a long long time.

QUOTE (itslate @ Dec 7 2007, 01:16 PM)

QUOTE (lindagt @ Dec 7 2007, 12:09 PM)

QUOTE (itslate @ Dec 7 2007, 01:02 PM)

QUOTE (EEEEvon @ Dec 7 2007, 09:53 AM)

Some who have never won a Grammy: Led Zeppelin, Diana Ross, Backstreet Boys, Queen, Jewel, Neil Young, Bob Marley, Janis Joplin, Grateful Dead, Bon Jovi, The Doors, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Who, Buddy Holly

Go figure...

Wow didn't know that. And 2 of my favorites Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt had out a dozen albums before they were recognized.

That's right - it took Bonnie Raitt almost 20 years to finally get her due.I went to many of her concerts in the years preceding the grammy and she always seemed to play for good sized crowds of dedicated fans and seemed very happy doing what she did.

I didn't realize the same was true of Jackson Browne. It's a funny industry, but really all that matters to the real artist is that they are making music and that people are enjoying it. The rest is gravy.

Yes Linda I've been to almost all Bonnie Raitt's local concerts and they were sell outs. Funny thing is most make it to Rock and Roll's hall of fame anyway, despite no grammy's. I wouldn't put so much stock in this.

If I were to confess truly - I really wanted the grammy nomination not as much for Elliott (because I don't think it's all that important to him right now in his career) but for ME. It would be the vindication for all the naysayers that - yes - he is really THAT good. But it will happen and when it does, it will be sweet. He will record even better songs and make even better albums that have to be recognized.

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 04:27 PM)

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I guess I just think there's a fundamental difference between negative criticism and constructive criticism. The latter, to me, seems "supportive" in the ways you mention.

Like itslate says, I would hope Elliott and his team would want honest responses from the fans. Does that mean we should go out of our way to be negative? Of course not. But if they ever look to us to test out their ideas, it wouldn't be responsible of us to not speak frankly.

And let's put Elliott's "feelings" aside for a moment: isn't the main function of this forum for US, primarily? If we're not speaking our true minds, the forum seems kinda pointless then. We wouldn't have the diversity of opinion that makes good debates . . . good.

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 08:37 AM)

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I so agree...E has professionals he has on his payroll to be critics and offer advice...and he can read and see the criticisms offered by others..I think every star needs FANS to cheer, be thrilled and just love him/her..Why else be motivated to create art if not for like-minded people who "get" what you are doing??? Just for money or fame? I don't think that is the major part of the picture for E...I think the fans should do THEIR job and be FANS first and foremost! Otherwise we're falling down on the job...our legitimate role to play...

Did I miss something? I've never heard Elliott say that he couldn't withstand some criticism right now, and that he'll withstand it better when his career is further down the road. I've never heard him say that he needs to hear only positive things from us (is that real love anyway?) and I've never heard him spell out the definition of a "fan." I've never heard him say that since we're not on his payroll, we can't criticize anything he does. Since I've never heard him say any of these things, I'm concluding that these opinions are all originating with the fans who think that they know what's best.

Everyone is going to have their own level of fandom. If you want to worship Elliott and never say anything negative, that is your right as a fan to do. Just don't claim that that is the ONLY way to be a true "fan," and expect others to feel the same way as you, and criticize them when they don't.

I don't get how Elliott fans who say that nobody should never criticize Elliott will turn right around and criticize other Elliott fans. Before I get angry pm's, I am not trying to point the finger at any specific person--this has been going on for a looooooooong time, and I'm so tired of it.

If you don't like my post, please don't allow it to offend you--just skip over it if you want. You have that right. Or you can read it and accept that other fans' opinions are just as valid as yours.

I was happy to read that Ken was disappointed that Elliott didn't get a nod. I think we all are because it would a great end to 2007. It would have taken him to that next level and stabilized his career. With the 2nd single stalling, E is still establishing himself in the industry.

However, I am very excited to see how well the Christas CD is doing. For someone selling in one outlet to do that well on the BB charts is great. Taylor Swift's album went double platinum and she's not outselling him by that much. I suggest if you feel disappointed with E's Grammy snub, buy a few copies of his Xmas album. It won't help as much as a Grammy nod but the industry will def notice his strong sales.

I prefer everyone here to be as honest as possible myself. However, there's really a lot of good stuff going on and I don't want to get too hung up on the things that aren't working.

I agree, there are all kinds of fans . By the different posts I have read we are all individuals. I don' t think we should chop each others heads off for giving an opinion.

Personally if I have some advice for Elliott I send him an E-mail. Nothing wrong with being honest.

QUOTE

Did I miss something? I've never heard Elliott say that he couldn't withstand some criticism right now, and that he'll withstand it better when his career is further down the road. I've never heard him say that he needs to hear only positive things from us (is that real love anyway?) and I've never heard him spell out the definition of a "fan." I've never heard him say that since we're not on his payroll, we can't criticize anything he does. Since I've never heard him say any of these things, I'm concluding that these opinions are all originating with the fans who think that they know what's best.

Everyone is going to have their own level of fandom. If you want to worship Elliott and never say anything negative, that is your right as a fan to do. Just don't claim that that is the ONLY way to be a true "fan," and expect others to feel the same way as you, and criticize them when they don't.

I don't get how Elliott fans who say that nobody should never criticize Elliott will turn right around and criticize other Elliott fans. Before I get angry pm's, I am not trying to point the finger at any specific person--this has been going on for a looooooooong time, and I'm so tired of it.

If you don't like my post, please don't allow it to offend you--just skip over it if you want. You have that right. Or you can read it and accept that other fans' opinions are just as valid as yours.

Thank You!

I realize that "fan" is different than "friend" but honestly, I would distrust a friend that gave unequivocal approval of *everything* I did, said, wore, etc... I would start questioning her sincerity. I still remember the time I came downstairs with my hair in hot rollers and my grandmother told me how nice I looked. My hair was in flippin' rollers! Now, I realize grandparents are supposed to give unconditional support but I really questioned the sincerity of her compliments after that.

To me a "true" friend or fan doesn't admire or like you because everything you do is perfect, but because your inner essence, talent, whatever is more compelling than your imperfections.

QUOTE (wee_moggie @ Dec 7 2007, 12:57 PM)

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 08:37 AM)

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I so agree...E has professionals he has on his payroll to be critics and offer advice...and he can read and see the criticisms offered by others..I think every star needs FANS to cheer, be thrilled and just love him/her..Why else be motivated to create art if not for like-minded people who "get" what you are doing??? Just for money or fame? I don't think that is the major part of the picture for E...I think the fans should do THEIR job and be FANS first and foremost! Otherwise we're falling down on the job...our legitimate role to play...

Did I miss something? I've never heard Elliott say that he couldn't withstand some criticism right now, and that he'll withstand it better when his career is further down the road. I've never heard him say that he needs to hear only positive things from us (is that real love anyway?) and I've never heard him spell out the definition of a "fan." I've never heard him say that since we're not on his payroll, we can't criticize anything he does. Since I've never heard him say any of these things, I'm concluding that these opinions are all originating with the fans who think that they know what's best.

Everyone is going to have their own level of fandom. If you want to worship Elliott and never say anything negative, that is your right as a fan to do. Just don't claim that that is the ONLY way to be a true "fan," and expect others to feel the same way as you, and criticize them when they don't.

I don't get how Elliott fans who say that nobody should never criticize Elliott will turn right around and criticize other Elliott fans. Before I get angry pm's, I am not trying to point the finger at any specific person--this has been going on for a looooooooong time, and I'm so tired of it.

If you don't like my post, please don't allow it to offend you--just skip over it if you want. You have that right. Or you can read it and accept that other fans' opinions are just as valid as yours.

I am by no means criticizing others...only saying that I have the right to express my own feelings too...I feel the puppydogs and rainbows crowd has a right to exist too and I'm a proud representative. This faction has a right to exist. Why is that viewpoint so seemingly threatening to others of a more critical bent? I am not criticizing that view just explaining my own feelings and motivations. ETA-The definition of fan from one source, go to www.dictionary.com--
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
fan2 /fæn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fan] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.
[Origin: 1885–90, Americanism; short for fanatic]

—Synonyms supporter, enthusiast, partisan, booster, addict.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Elliott's message to me when he wrote and talked to me was Thank you for your Support.
We all have a different way to interpret what being a fan is.. let's not cause friction over such things and create negative vibe . We must look at the things that has brought us together and strengthen that . We have lots of work to do and we have a long road ahead.

QUOTE (wee_moggie @ Dec 7 2007, 12:57 PM)

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 08:37 AM)

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I so agree...E has professionals he has on his payroll to be critics and offer advice...and he can read and see the criticisms offered by others..I think every star needs FANS to cheer, be thrilled and just love him/her..Why else be motivated to create art if not for like-minded people who "get" what you are doing??? Just for money or fame? I don't think that is the major part of the picture for E...I think the fans should do THEIR job and be FANS first and foremost! Otherwise we're falling down on the job...our legitimate role to play...

Did I miss something? I've never heard Elliott say that he couldn't withstand some criticism right now, and that he'll withstand it better when his career is further down the road. I've never heard him say that he needs to hear only positive things from us (is that real love anyway?) and I've never heard him spell out the definition of a "fan." I've never heard him say that since we're not on his payroll, we can't criticize anything he does. Since I've never heard him say any of these things, I'm concluding that these opinions are all originating with the fans who think that they know what's best.

Everyone is going to have their own level of fandom. If you want to worship Elliott and never say anything negative, that is your right as a fan to do. Just don't claim that that is the ONLY way to be a true "fan," and expect others to feel the same way as you, and criticize them when they don't.

I don't get how Elliott fans who say that nobody should never criticize Elliott will turn right around and criticize other Elliott fans. Before I get angry pm's, I am not trying to point the finger at any specific person--this has been going on for a looooooooong time, and I'm so tired of it.

If you don't like my post, please don't allow it to offend you--just skip over it if you want. You have that right. Or you can read it and accept that other fans' opinions are just as valid as yours.

AMEN SISTER WEE!! Grammy voters will not be convinced one way or the other by what his fans do or don't say. All artists have an uphill climb. It's a tough business....no matter who you are. Yes there may be behind the scenes stuff going and industry manipulations or whatever but most of those artists on the big labels and big money behind them...did not start out that way. They too had to knock on doors, play small clubs, convince record execs etc. Yes Elliott has his naysayers...but I don't think he is overwhelmingly under attack by the industry. He does have alot of support from radio, and industry insiders. People who KNOW music know he is the real deal. I doubt he failed to get a Grammy nod because I don't like this or that song and voiced that opinion.

George Carlin pointed out that most of the people who were assassinated were people advocating unconditional love--Gandhi, John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Jesus, etc etc..Why does that concept seem to bring out such upset in people? I try to practice unconditional love everywhere so frankly I'm used to the response and never take offense.

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 06:35 PM)

QUOTE (wee_moggie @ Dec 7 2007, 12:57 PM)

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 08:37 AM)

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I so agree...E has professionals he has on his payroll to be critics and offer advice...and he can read and see the criticisms offered by others..I think every star needs FANS to cheer, be thrilled and just love him/her..Why else be motivated to create art if not for like-minded people who "get" what you are doing??? Just for money or fame? I don't think that is the major part of the picture for E...I think the fans should do THEIR job and be FANS first and foremost! Otherwise we're falling down on the job...our legitimate role to play...

Did I miss something? I've never heard Elliott say that he couldn't withstand some criticism right now, and that he'll withstand it better when his career is further down the road. I've never heard him say that he needs to hear only positive things from us (is that real love anyway?) and I've never heard him spell out the definition of a "fan." I've never heard him say that since we're not on his payroll, we can't criticize anything he does. Since I've never heard him say any of these things, I'm concluding that these opinions are all originating with the fans who think that they know what's best.

Everyone is going to have their own level of fandom. If you want to worship Elliott and never say anything negative, that is your right as a fan to do. Just don't claim that that is the ONLY way to be a true "fan," and expect others to feel the same way as you, and criticize them when they don't.

I don't get how Elliott fans who say that nobody should never criticize Elliott will turn right around and criticize other Elliott fans. Before I get angry pm's, I am not trying to point the finger at any specific person--this has been going on for a looooooooong time, and I'm so tired of it.

If you don't like my post, please don't allow it to offend you--just skip over it if you want. You have that right. Or you can read it and accept that other fans' opinions are just as valid as yours.

I am by no means criticizing others...only saying that I have the right to express my own feelings too...I feel the puppydogs and rainbows crowd has a right to exist too and I'm a proud representative. This faction has a right to exist. Why is that viewpoint so seemingly threatening to others of a more critical bent? I am not criticizing that view just explaining my own feelings and motivations. ETA-The definition of fan from one source, go to www.dictionary.com--
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
fan2 /fæn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fan] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.
[Origin: 1885–90, Americanism; short for fanatic]

—Synonyms supporter, enthusiast, partisan, booster, addict.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

With all due respect (and I mean that), who in this thread ever said the "puppy dogs and rainbows" crowd don't have a right to exist and speak their mind on this forum? I'm seriously looking upthread, and the only viewpoints I see being criticized or asked to be silenced are the "negative" ones. If I missed something here, please point it out, because essentially I agree with you: we need the positive voices here as much as any other voices.

If someone is genuinely trolling here just to cause trouble, I think we'd know. Otherwise, I'd hope we weren't encouraging people to be quiet whevever they have a thought that isn't 100% positive. Seems like the forum would get pretty boring pretty fast.

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 02:13 PM)

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 06:35 PM)

QUOTE (wee_moggie @ Dec 7 2007, 12:57 PM)

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 08:37 AM)

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 11:27 AM)

QUOTE (alienhamster @ Dec 7 2007, 11:11 AM)

QUOTE (Benito @ Dec 7 2007, 04:03 PM)

Well, Grammy or no, the show must go on! We all know that Elliott's life as an artist has always been an uphill climb, so a snub from the payola types is no big deal. I just don't want to hear Elliott's "fans" dissing his work--it's like being half-hearted in one's support for him--for when that happens, how else will those Grammy voters be convinced of Elliott's greatness?

So, a fan can't disapprove of anything Elliott does, ever? Seems a little extreme.

Do you think Elliott wants to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men his whole life? I hope not.

I think when someone like Elliott is struggling in an uphill climb, as he is now, Elliott needs support in a major way. Elliott has enough negative critics now who can be just that. What the fans should do is support Elliott and believe in his talent .

When Elliott starts to coast and make himself a name and get established we can let it rip if we have something we don't like about his projects. Elliott would be able to withstand it much better but now he needs our support . It is still an uphill climb for a while..we can support him and still make a suggestion in a very positive way.

I so agree...E has professionals he has on his payroll to be critics and offer advice...and he can read and see the criticisms offered by others..I think every star needs FANS to cheer, be thrilled and just love him/her..Why else be motivated to create art if not for like-minded people who "get" what you are doing??? Just for money or fame? I don't think that is the major part of the picture for E...I think the fans should do THEIR job and be FANS first and foremost! Otherwise we're falling down on the job...our legitimate role to play...

Did I miss something? I've never heard Elliott say that he couldn't withstand some criticism right now, and that he'll withstand it better when his career is further down the road. I've never heard him say that he needs to hear only positive things from us (is that real love anyway?) and I've never heard him spell out the definition of a "fan." I've never heard him say that since we're not on his payroll, we can't criticize anything he does. Since I've never heard him say any of these things, I'm concluding that these opinions are all originating with the fans who think that they know what's best.

Everyone is going to have their own level of fandom. If you want to worship Elliott and never say anything negative, that is your right as a fan to do. Just don't claim that that is the ONLY way to be a true "fan," and expect others to feel the same way as you, and criticize them when they don't.

I don't get how Elliott fans who say that nobody should never criticize Elliott will turn right around and criticize other Elliott fans. Before I get angry pm's, I am not trying to point the finger at any specific person--this has been going on for a looooooooong time, and I'm so tired of it.

If you don't like my post, please don't allow it to offend you--just skip over it if you want. You have that right. Or you can read it and accept that other fans' opinions are just as valid as yours.

I am by no means criticizing others...only saying that I have the right to express my own feelings too...I feel the puppydogs and rainbows crowd has a right to exist too and I'm a proud representative. This faction has a right to exist. Why is that viewpoint so seemingly threatening to others of a more critical bent? I am not criticizing that view just explaining my own feelings and motivations. ETA-The definition of fan from one source, go to www.dictionary.com--
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
fan2 /fæn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fan] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.
[Origin: 1885–90, Americanism; short for fanatic]

—Synonyms supporter, enthusiast, partisan, booster, addict.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

With all due respect (and I mean that), who in this thread ever said the "puppy dogs and rainbows" crowd don't have a right to exist and speak their mind on this forum? I'm seriously looking upthread, and the only viewpoints I see being criticized or asked to be silenced are the "negative" ones. If I missed something here, please point it out, because essentially I agree with you: we need the positive voices here as much as any other voices.

If someone is genuinely trolling here just to cause trouble, I think we'd know. Otherwise, I'd hope we weren't encouraging people to be quiet whevever they have a thought that isn't 100% positive. Seems like the forum would get pretty boring pretty fast.

I'm here to say I always get scolded for my 100% positive viewpoints...it gets a little dreary..even using the terms "puppydogs and rainbows" and "rose-colored glasses" seems derogatory to me.

All I know is Elliott's words to me in person and on his blogs is "Thank you for your support. "We all interpret it differently. We should support one another as fans but also lets support Elliott in our own way. If it is puppies and rainbows , that is fine, if is is with generally constructive advice that is fine too. So what is the beef anyway?? We should support each other because we are all connected and important to Elliott. We all know that Elliott needs good supportive fans . I just want Elliott to fulfill his dreams and I am sure we all want the best for Elliott.

QUOTE (Taratova @ Dec 7 2007, 02:44 PM)

All I know is Elliott's words to me in person and on his blogs is "Thank you for your support. "We all interpret it differently. We should support one another as fans but also lets support Elliott in our own way. If it is puppies and rainbows , that is fine, if is is with generally constructive advice that is fine too. So what is the beef anyway?? We should support each other because we are all connected and important to Elliott. We all know that Elliott needs good supportive fans . I just want Elliott to fulfill his dreams and I am sure we all want the best for Elliott.

:xmascheers:

QUOTE (AngELL @ Dec 7 2007, 02:16 PM)