Love how Elliott is still getting press mention at this lull time for us fans. This is from the article:

"Even 80% of the American Idol effect is plenty to get a record going, enough to get it on radio's docket," he says. "If (Season 5 third-place finisher Elliot Yamin's) Wait For You had walked in without American Idol, on an indie label, it certainly wouldn't have been the hit it was."

I am happy to see him with even a short mention in a long article. He seems to get a mention in almost all AI articles. His single has done so much to keep him in the public eye. TPTB at American Idol are certainly aware of how often his success is mentioned so this can only boost his chance for a future performance on AI.

^ Yeah, so cool that he gets all these little shout-outs :)

That is insulting to Elliott though. They are saying if he wasn't on AI he wouldn't have been a success. It makes it sound like Elliott is only where he is because of AI and not his raw talent.

I tend to agree with you, Mike. I wasn't too happy with that quote, although they do have the qualifier "on an indie label", which is the main reason WFY's success was a surprise.

Yea, I agree! What a left-handed compliment!
But at least they mention his name...Elliott YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmin!!!

I am surprised that this is a controversial post. Elliott readily admits that American Idol gave him the break he needed. And who can deny that AI helped him get an unusually profitable indie deal, one that I think some others envy. He does get lots of mention in the press, almost always with a mention of AI and very often with a mention of his indie status. I didn't take this mention as a slap on his talent in any way. There definitely is such a thing as bad publicity but I certainly don't think this is it.

I still don't buy it. What about Taylor Hicks? Did being an American Idol help him get a smash hit? Katharine McPhee? I think with some radio stations it was actually a hindrance to the song's acceptance that it was sung by someone from American Idol.

I'm not saying being on Idol didn't help Elliott. I'm just saying the song was a huge hit mainly because of Elliott's talent and hard work, and I don't think the quote reflects it at all.

ETA: I don't think this is bad publicity, either. I'm just saying it could have been more positive.

PoorMe, you are one of my favorite posters so this is just one of those let's agree to disagree situations. One thing for sure, we both love Elliott.

You can say that again! :grouphug:

You know, I think it's hard (actually, impossible) to deny that every single Idol alum gets a sales and radio-play boost initially (and, in fact, a big one) from having been on the show. In the case of Wait for You, for example, I think a big plus in getting the song to take off was Ryan Seacrest's early and steady support of it on KIIS. And there's no way in the known universe that Elliott as an indie without the Idol connection would ever ever ever have gotten that particular boon on a debut single. (and there's been more -- such as having a fanbase that is committed to *you* *personally* and will buy and vote and request in ways and to an extent early on that they would never have the motivation to do for a purely new, espeically indie, artist.

They *do* get these boosts initially, all of them.

And to me that's in no way an insult. It says nothing about Elliott's or any of the Idol alums' talent or business savvy. It just acknowledges a fact that, to me, when you look at the entertainment industry, it's not possible to deny.

Based on Elliott's talent and work ethic and business savvy and personality, I'm dead certain that, had he gotten signed up with Abraham to do an album without Idol, ultimately he would have achieved major success. However, I also think that the chances of his having had so much success so soon under those circumstances are about one in a million. It just doesn't happen that way, no matter how talented you are.

No, but it sold 699,000 albums for him, which never would have happened otherwise. I don't think anybody's saying that Wait for You wasn't a radio-friendly, radio-worthy song (while Taylor's music on his cd simply is not in the style or format that stations play today and the songs that sort of are kind of lousy songs). They're just saying tht all of these people get off to a fast start because of Idol.

Katharine -- Over It went to #22 on Top 40, a good showing; she got movie roles and endorsement deals. All partly attributable to the Idol phenomenon, so far as I can see.

It helps them all initially -- and if you have an especially good or especially currently popular product product (like Elliott singing Wait for You or Chris D's album) then the success you get is much longer lasting and higher.

actually, I kind of see it both ways....the idol benefit def. gave him the initial exposure and solid fanbase, and some great connections (Seacrest, performance on AI) yet, I still think it would not have been the smash hit without THE voice and all the hard work that Elliott (and his team) did promoting it. So for me the comment is slightly offensive, yet slightly flattering, since HE is the one getting mentioned, NOT Hicks or McPhee, because obviously, being on idol does NOT guarantee success.

I have to agree with you 100%. I don't see this as an insult at all. There are talented musicians and singers out there - probably a dime a dozen - but most never get the exposure to succeed. Exposure plus mega talent will take Elliott everywhere. Exposure plus mediocre talent will take a lot of the finalists not too far. (Not to name any names) Without AI - Elliott probably could have made a living singing, if he was lucky some people would listen and "discover" him and he might have sold some records. With AI he got the push to get his voice heard.

I agree. Both were required to have what happened happen.

That's why I don't see this quote as an insult. In the article, they're not discussing relative talent.s They're just discussing external boosts that also make a difference (a big and crucial difference, unfortunately -- *would* that talent and hard work were all it took ... )

As you say, because of his talent and other abilities Elliott will go on to do things with his boosts that others can only dream of.

I think Idol helped Elliott get exposure but WFY did not take off based on that. There are plenty of idols who never do that well on the charts.

Kimberly Locke, Mandisa, Diana DeGarmo, even Blake Lewis' first single didn't do that great on the radio. Clay Aiken was extremely popular yet never had a hit on the radio.

I think it is wrong to say Elliott is where he is because of Idol because that isn't the case. Idol got him exposed to the public, but it didn't make WFY take off.

For the record, a lot of pop stations will almost never play an idol's single. They think it is gimmicky and don't want to be associated with it. Obviously the exceptions are Kelly, Daughtry, Elliott and looks like Jordan as well now. Kelly's early stuff had a hard time being accepted on radio due to Idol. Carrie had tons of country hits before she took off on pop.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on WforY! I really think that the Seacrest backing was pretty crucial for Wait for You, since it's indie and Top 40 has a pretty bad track record for playing indies at all let alone persisting with them, but who knows either way, really?

Let's just say that we're all really glad that it did take off, however you rank the reasons!

I agree, that's why I see it as a "left handed compliment."
btw here's the link to the entire article. After reading the whole thing, there's a lot more insults in there, but not for Elliott.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/ne...nterstitialskip

I totally agree with you! There are so many people out there trying to get into this business. AI was a GREAT step for Elliott to get noticed!

To me, the emphasis in the Elliott quote is on "indie," not on "Elliott." As in, Top 40 does *not* give indie songs -- particularly indie songs by debuting artists -- the treatment they gave Wait for You.

This happened to be an indie song sung by somebody who already had fame, a strong fanbase (suppose there'd been no Idol fans to do that early requesting -- there's no way in heck there would have been nearly the same request volume -- folks on this site confirm that fact all the time by the amount of requesting and buying we all do), and Ryan Seacrest in his corner.

It's a comment about indie, in my opinion, saying and intending to say literally nothing about Elliott's own abilities.

I took it as a more about the label than to Elliott's talent. When you don't have a big label backing you it is harder for an unknown artist. American Idol gives these contestant thier break. Should I say " thier foot in the door"

Agreed. I dont see it as an insult at all.

Every little bit of press is part of the progress toward making EY a household name, lol! I'm just sick of peeps saying "Who?" It's getting easier to mention his name and to get proper recognition these days... instead of "Oh, I never watch American Idol"....

I don't see this as an insult, either.

This article is also interesting and may be a little relevant to the discussion here:

http://www.kansascity.com/238/story/435558.html

Selling music in 2007 proves one thing: Better try every medium for scattershot success

Excerpt:

One thing that has caught my attention in that USA Today article is this:

I hope they feature Elliott if this thing pans out. :)

I also think AI was the boost Elliott needed himself. He stated many times he was "lost", and if he had not tried out for AI, we might never have gotten to hear him sing. I don't think he had the direction or confidence until he went on AI. And, his producer cousin didn't even know he COULD sing, so it could have been years and years before anyone outside of Karaoke would have heard him.

I really think that behind the scenes, AI is helping him, even if he is Indie. With the link to Sony, and his performance on AI, I feel they are backing him somewhat(maybe not CLIVE, but I think Nigel liked him too).

I do believe Elliott would have made it eventually if he didn't appear on AI, once he found his way. But I am thankful AI gave him to us a lot sooner, and I think AI helped WFY, because it really took off once he performed it on the show. The entrance alone that night was more than any other idol that performed last year received. It was almost deja vu of the entrance of MJB when they dueted at the finale. A "star" entrance. That always hits me when I watch the video back.

I do not think it is an insult at all. I think it is a fact. However, HARD work and a GREAT voice are what will take you further. I believe some of the idols believe that winning or just being on the show guaranteed them success. Elliott has shown that you have to work hard to get what you want. But I think in the end, he will be very proud of himself for what he has accomplished.

My take on WFY success. It was primarily due to:

(1) The fact that the song itself, regardless of who sang it or where he was from, was a strong pop song. If he hadn't had outstanding callout (#1 callout initially, infact), it never would have been a major hit.
(2) The early support at KIIS--not just from Seacrest, but from the PD and MD and Jojo there. I think Idol helped get Elliott "in the door" there, but it certainly didn't secure airplay for him at that station. The PD and MD listened to the song and said, "Hey, I think we can hear this at our station. Let's run with it."
(3) The fact that Elliott got top phones early on at L.A., San Diego, and Richmond. I think this is where the Idol impact mattered most (in terms of radio). Elliott already had a pre-established fanbase that most new artists never get. So people that remembered liking him from Idol were more inclined to call in--but in addition to others who simply liked the song and reacted to it. Idol is *part* of the effect, but not the whole effect.
(4) The stigma of Idol status at later stations was able to be overcome because of the success at initial stationns. A lot of PDs didn't even consider the song on first pass because it was just another idol on a non-major label. But its instant reaction at some big stations made them take a second look.
(5) Callout maintained throughout the year that the song was in the top 10 AND had very low burnout.

So, I think the article is overstating the influence of AI. It certainly HELPED the song take off, but that wasn't the primary reason it was a hit. There are too many other examples of Idol songs that never break into airplay.

Alien,

I just want to add that Elliott's visits to radio stations and meeting DJ's was huge.

I think Elliott proved that he was willing to work for their respect and prove he was for real.

As he branches out to other formats, this willingness to travel and meet the DJ's in person will help him out immensely.

Absolutely. I've mentioned the importance of the radio tour elsewhere; just accidently left it off that list this time! I think he needed to do it again for "One Word," but for whatever reason they decided not to.

I guess the Idol status helped with the radio interviews, since so many of them focused on his experience on idol and the Season 6 (which was underway or had just ended).

I completely agree that Wait for You's long-term success was attributable to all the stuff you say and maybe more!


My question is just: How many *indie debuts* would the KISS people even have considered giving this much play if they didn't come from American Idol or some other venue of fame? .... The answer to that is very close to zero, I believe. That's all I'm saying!

I think it's highly possible that the writer of this article knows and agrees with everything you say. But this is an article about American Idol, not about Elliott or about radioplay of indie debut albums or anything else! He didn't have the luxury of laying out a big essay on all the various and sundry reasons that this or that happened; he was using Wait for You to make a bigger point that really had nothing to do with Elliott.

And, as others have said, I think the validation and the additional pr obtained from having Elliott mentioned in a brief explanatory throwaway in articles that aren't even about Elliott -- based on the *fact* that now everybody knows about him and about Wait for you! -- is worth having a few of the extenuating circumstances sloughed over!


ETA, just to clarify what we're really talking about: The quote in question is from Sean Ross, vice president of music and programming at Edison Media Research, not from the article's author.

And the quote is as follows (about indie, not Elliott, and, coming from Edison Media Research, it's clearly based on a lot of experience): "Even 80% of the American Idol effect is plenty to get a record going, enough to get it on radio's docket," he says. "If (Season 5 third-place finisher Elliot Yamin's) Wait For You had walked in without American Idol, on an indie label, it certainly wouldn't have been the hit it was."

I don't disagree, apple. Like a lot of journalism, it relies on a huge oversimplication of the issue at hand. If it were a spotlight piece just on Elliott, I would expect more nuance and depth. In general I'll take an oversimplified statement about Elliott over NO statement about Elliott.

Still, for the sake of discussion here--since some posters had suggested agreement with that statement--I thought I'd lay out my take E's success this past year.

Well, my point is that I think folks are really misreading the quote.

Nobody said that the Idol effect was the only cause or even the main cause of WFY's success, just that it was *a* contributing factor without which the song would not have been as big a hit as it was.

The exact same thing could be said about Elliott's voice. If Wait for You had come to radio stations sung by another Idol and that idol worked the radio stations and did all the other things Elliott and his label did, but the voice was not Elliott's, I'd say that, again, the song probably would not have been as big a hit. as it was.

Saying that isn't any kind of slight to Idol, just as saying the other isn't any kind of slight to Elliott, is my point.

I think Elliott is grateful to AI because he got the necessary stage training he needed and the confirmation and feedback that, 'yes indeed, you are good!'
And the adoration of all the fans couldn't help but build up his confidence.

There's the old saying which applies if you have the talent:
THE HARDER YOU WORK, THE LUCKIER YOU GET..........I think this applies also.
Some of the Idols don't seem to want to put out the effort that Elliott has.

I agree, Jojojam. The performance skills and the connections Elliott made during his AI stint certainly didn't hurt his career. His first "real" single, WFY had just the right sound and was supported by a very appealing video. The AI exposure, the radio tour, the AI fan base, the support of Ryan Seacrest on KIIS...it all came together with Elliott's incredible voice to produce a genuine hit. As an Indie and without all that, WFY would never have gotten off the ground.

And Alien, I agree with pretty much everything you said too.

I agree, the AI performance did help him, but it wasn't the only thing that helped him byfar.

AI cuts both ways and how a singer is portrayed on the show can be very bad exposure too. The exposure that helped Taylor Hicks build a fanbase and sell several hundred thousand cd's also kept him from being taken seriously. There probably wasn't enough payola in all of RCA's coffers to get him airplay on Pop even if the music had been really good. Kellie Pickler, on the other hand could be marketed as slightly ridiculous on AI and still do great because Country loves funny, charming entertaining personalities.

Elliott being an AI alum helped get WFY some initial spins and him gigs on radio stations to promote his cd because they wanted to chat about AI. But they also had to listen to him sing and what a sly stroke of brilliance his radio tour was--risky because he could have messed up while singing but then again, he really is that talented which was just more impressive. His debut of WFY with Ryan Seacrest and especially getting to perform it on AI season six may have been more important AI exposure for Elliott's cd than the whole of season five anyway. Hopefully he can get even more exposure for live performances as he continues to transform his raw talent and energy into polished, amazing and moving vocals. He wisely didn't bad mouth AI or take his opportunity for granted but used it for his springboard to a real music career.

Like other posters have said, Elliott has never been publicly disparaging toward the show. He has shown nothing but thanks and more thanks for all that show helped him to achieve. If anything, AI helped E to hone in on his dream to make it a reality. I remember seeing early interviews just at the start of AI5 and he said he wasn't sure about his direction in life. By Top 3 time, he was set and dedicated to the passion of making and performing great music. That's why despite all of the crazyness and negativity associated with the show, I still see AI as a great chance to see awesome new talent.

I'm sure the appearance on AI helped his career, but it certainly can't be attributed as the make or break of it. IMO, it has been his kindness and hardwork which won over a lot of people who combined to help make WFY the huge hit it has become. Plus, of course, his immense musical talent as arguably one of the best singers (technically and emotionally) in this new century :) Maybe that is the fan talking......maybe not? lol

Lots of varying opinions, and takes on this, but I just came to a new conclusion, and that is, that this whole article is just a lot of fluff, and they are trying to do some serious damage control. I particularly liked this little ditty..."it's only natural that a show as successful as Idol would level off in ratings. He says it may have peaked in Season 5, which many consider to be Idol's best, but that talented singers can keep audience declines to a minimum." yuh huh!!!! Season 5 WAS the best!!!!
But anyway, the ratings clearly dropped last year, and I think tptb can see the writing on the walls, hence all these articles about how great AI is.
I don't deny that it IS a foot in the door, but you need staying power, and Elliott has more of that than all the contestants from all the season's put together IMO.
I think there is soooo much wrong with the show, yet, there is an awful lot of right as well. Look what we got out of it!!!! And we know his name is Elliott Yaaaaaaaaaaaamin!!!

I think they go hand in hand, PM. I think being on American Idol got his foot in the door but it is his talent and amazing voice that has caused him to be so successful plus his hard work at promoting himself.

I recall Elliott saying once that he just needed a "toenail"in the door. He has definately acheived that. :elliottcap:

Regarding the success of WFY: Well you cant forget that AI gave him the opportunity to perform the song in front of millions of people. Elliott's peeps thought it was important enough of an opportunity to cancel a tour show. I thought it was after that performance when we saw the song really start to take off. Elliott himself always says how gratful he is for the opportunity he got on AI. I just have a feeling he wouldn't take the article as one bit negative.