Netiquette guidelines and definitions.

You may not agree with the definition of trolling. However, this may be useful in determing whether or not to start a new thread in order to allow the original thread to remain on topic, while creating a thread to explore and discuss the new topic.

http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ia_nq_send.htm#ontopic

I'm sorry SK888 but not sure why you posted this.. Is this directed at the people who participated in the discussion about posting a link?

It's meant as a general guideline.

I've read too many posts from members who say they should be able to post anything they wish.

I would simply ask that it not come at the expense of the original thread topic, even if that is where the source of your complaint originated.

Thanks for checking it out.

I'm sure that thread had something to do with it, rooney. Problem is, it's very difficult to stay exactly on topic simply due to the stream of consciousness of the brain. Sometimes topics veer off and branch like they would in a regular conversation. You know, like when we're talking about Elliott News and the next thing you know it's about jello shots and hair salons. These things happen.

There's no shortage of threads veering a little here and there.

But I think the thread OP or a fellow poster can request that a post or posts be moved to a new thread if there is a more appropriate section of the fansite for the content.

Probably so. I'm just saying that I don't think it makes one a troll when for example the Josh thread becomes the planning ground for pizza lunches and so on - it's just the way things go sometimes.

"Trolling is the act of posting a message highly off-topic or otherwise calculated to arouse controversy and hopefully cause a flame war..... "

Source of content is posted in OP's opening post.

:rotfl: Thankfully, to date, jello shots and hair salons have not inflamed the Elliott masses.

Well, I for one have always been very pro-hair salon. However, you wouldn't really know what inflames the masses because nobody has ever asked, And when the masses actually say what inflames them, they are scuttled off to some unfindable thread to die a quite death without upsettling everyone.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

We do our best and give of our own personal time.

We work with the tools we are given and then strive to provide Elliott news and information. We aren't perfect and mistakes are made.

But, I don't think it is asking too much to start a separate thread on a topic that will most certainly generate commentary that has nothing to do with the OP's thread.

I'm sorry that so many find it inconvenient to scroll down to look at other forums and topics, but that is how the site is organized in order to encourage a diversity of discourse.

Sk888, the "you" I referred to was not necessarily you personally, but the "you" as a whole. And to clarify my remark in my previous post, I don't really care one way or another if a new thread is started for any and every topic if that's easiest for all of you who dedicate your time to promoting Elliott here. What I am saying is that there is a small handful of people considered "the masses" and it is not necessarily the opinion of the actual majority that is usually taken into account, but rather that of a much smaller segment of the members. Most of the disgruntled others just go away, as I'm sure you can see by the activity level and number of people who actually post anymore. I don't want to just "go away" because I've always liked it here; so I spoke my mind. I think this site should be for ALL fans of Elliott, not just those masses who become inflamed when disagreed with even slightly.

okay, I'm really veering, but Jackie, I have a question for you

Did your mom make your matching outfits? They are so adorable! I used to make my 3 kids matching outfits all the time. Had a lot of fun with that.

Yes she did. She sewed cute stuff for us all the time. And I had a dolly that always got one, too.

So, I guess maybe we should start a new thread and have all the others moved to it regarding recent posts.

Should one of us start a new thread "How Not to Treat Fellow Elliott Fans" or maybe "Why People Should Not Invade Private Threads at Other Elliott Fan Sites and Break Board Rules While Doing So?" Or even "No Elliott Fan or Their Opinion Left Behind-Every Fan Matters?"

What burns my arse more than anything is those who have read these posts and participated in what I find totally unethical and unsavory behavior don't have the balls to post a simple apology or even send a pm to those who's privacy was invaded. Oh, and the fact that the username used to invade said privacy still hasn't been handed over to the Flipside Administrator either.

What would Elliott do?

This is another hypocritical action I feel. It's nothing but a warning to stay on topic and not say anything that can be construed as negative. i'm really sorry that this cannot be a place for intellectucal discussion that revolves or does not revolve around Elliott.

Push everything "unsightly" under the rug cause people will be upset. By people I mean the regulars.

I don't understand why it seems so important to the same few people to come here to disrupt the peace at this site. Fans should be able to read and post where they feel comfortable without a few people constantly causing problems and trolling. It's irritating to the rest of us and disrespectful to the site and to the other members.

Some things should be taken to PM or brought up in new threads in the proper sections. That way everyone can enjoy the site without being drawn into personal issues that some people have with other people.

It's just a matter of respect. Your need to fight it out should not over ride the rights of the rest of us to enjoy the site without the unnecessary drama.

Look, this is a site with 5200 members yet only 25-30 people post on any kind of regular basis. This is Elliott's official fan space and given that his myspace is dysfunctional, and he has no website, it's the only official anything the poor guy has got. Don't you think, that given the important function of this place that it would be best for Elliott if it could accommodate all of his fans rather than the 30 or so folks who keep getting so flustered when we try to have a discussion? Good grief, where can a discussion take place around here? Not in the news thread - OK, it was moved to Comments and Problems, then it had to be moved to OTR, then back to Comments and Problems. You can just keep moving it around until everyone gets fed up and you can go back to the 30 people who never have a differing opinion and all post "Good posting" to one another because you never disagree or have an opinion that doesn't coincide with the post above you and below you. Is it any wonder that there is so little traffic here anymore. I swear it reminds me of that speech George Bush gave when he said he wanted to bring the parties together - provided everyone agreed to agree with him. Listen - you guys go on and continue to be "the Deciders" and you'll run everyone out of here so that you can all sit around and agree with one another.

Noone is trying to "disrupt the peace" at E-train. We were trying to understand why certain things are the way they are.

This site does not allow for discussion, everything keeps getting swept under the rug. Yesterday we were basically called trolls and today outrifght which is beyond rude and offensive.

Is it a wonder why posting here is lagging? Unless everything is sunshine and roses you aren't allowed to post a thought or opposing opinion.

I can't understand how some members of this board are being referred to as trolls. Wow! I have belonged to this board for quite a while, but frankly don't read here very often any more as it has become rather boring. I do read the news updates that are posted...much appreciated.

The thing is that only about 5 of you constantly do this. Just flip he script. It just seems odd to me that 5 of you who don't really identify as E-Train, make it a priority to knowingly and often gleefully make the troll posts. Read the definition of trolling listed above. It is what is being done. It is disrespectful, annoying and selfish.

I'm through with this thread.

Excuse me? Identify ourselves as E-train? What is that suppose to mean? I thought this was a FAN SITE (official or not) for Elliott Yamin. Noone can deny that I'm a fan of his.

Maybe you should take off your rose colored glasses Georgia and open your eyes. It is not just 5 or so of us who constantly do this, there are many unahppy fans on here who aren't allowed to express their thoughts. Get over your damn self.

Also, I post on here quite often. Maybe I am still considered new to the site, but I do damn well more than just post to, as you imply, troll.

Oh and by the way, do the ones that borrowed posts from another site and spoke about Jackie behind her back identify themselves as members of that site? Did that entitle them to do what they did? Or are they just mean spirited self centered people who happen to have a superiority complex?

Don't really identify as E-Train?? What the hell are you talking about? Take a look at my post count. I have been a devoted fan of Elliott's every bit as long as anyone here and I've posted/read here every single day. What, when one isn't a sheeple they don't qualify as "identifying" with the E-train? That's BS. I wish you could see my PMs and emails from the people who agree with exactly what I'm saying here, about how they no longer dare to dissent about anything. And guess what, they have all "identified" as e-trainers at some point in the past and no longer feel comfortable doing so. Go on - pretend a mass exodus isn't taking place and go on about your business. The reason only 5 speak up is it takes a hell of a lot of nerve to disagree around this place. But believe you me, there are far more who feel the same way. How dare you insinuate that I'm a troll? A troll is someone who has the audacity to speak their mind? The nerve of me!

OH.MY.GOG.

You have some nerve insinuating that those of us that have finally had enough and decided to let our thoughts and feeling known are "trolls" and do not "identify with the Etrain." Ummm, look when I joined the etrain and my post count....I was even a member here before you.

I have LOVED Elliott and his music for over 2 years now....spent tons of $$$$ buying and gifting multiple cd's and singles (I even gifted them at the AI boards back when his cd and WFY came out!), sent Nancy multiple copies of E's cd to send to the troops, traveled great distances and spent even more $$$$ going to concerts, spent countless hours requsting WFY, etc. I have cried for joy and sorrow over our Elliott. I bawled like a baby when his dear mom passed. I have jumped up and down like a true fantard and been made fun of at my house for being nutso over Elliott the past 2+ years. I spend countless hours on Elliott fans sites talking with other fans and searching/watching all the goodies from appearances and concerts. So, are you trying to tell me I'm not a good enough or "true" fan just because I don't happen to post "good post" with everything that is said around here or happen to decide not to keep my mouth shut when sticking up for some fellow Elliott fans who have been wronged whether you consider them "Etrainer's" or not. Unfreakingbelievable.

Just because some fans enjoy multiple Elliott fan sites doesn't make one not identify with the Etrain (whatever you mean by that) and even more importantly with Elliott...If you happen to mean that being a true Elliott fan is based soley on being a sheeple and agreeing with anything and everything that goes on here out in the open or behind people's backs, then you really need a reality check. Sorry, no disrepect but this is sad but true.

There are some extremely PASSIONATE Elliott fans that have decided to be members at other fansites as well as the Etrain. Calling them trolls is bound to bring out some claws don't ya think? And no matter what goes on here, those fans will remain passionate about Elliott whether or not they decide to continue to be E-bots and/or decide to bring other members to task if they are in the wrong. The members of the Flipside did NOT ask to have there personal and private threads invaded for the sole purpose of pizza lunch gossip. Nor did Jackie deserve being called "disrepectful" to Elliott just because of her private posts which had nothing whatsoever to do with Elliott mind you.

It was attempted to take care of all this via pm's in the beginning with no success. So, you can't blame us or call us trolls just because we've decided to call out this and some other behavior in the open. Sorry, but sometimes you reap what you sow.

And personally, I've found your posts in here more trollish, annoying and disrepectful than any of the so called 5 "trolls" you have pointed out.

Okay, I really have to say my piece here. I have always considered myself neutral in many ways... trying to understand both sides of these arguments. But as an outsider to many things, I usually stay within the latest news threads, I just have to say.

There seems to be 2 topics lately!
1. Why are posts moved
2. Asking for permission to post a video/file

Most of you aren't really looking for answers. Yes it is disrupting when it suddenly appears to go on and on in a thread, titles start off with nothing what so ever to do with it! Lately I've probably missed some real important postings relating to Elliott because I have to read through all the mess I didn't open the thread to read.

I hear there are some problems with some personal information spread although I have no clue what and where it happened. Jackie, I really feel for you. But isn't there a more appropriate space for all to say what they feel?

I'm very glad that Sk8888 has posted this link here. Perhaps we can all hash this out here and not in the news threads. And yes, it's here for all to see!

Why can't we all just get along? Afterall, we all love Elliott... we have that much in common. Sure many are going to disagree with my post here, and have somethings to say about it... but this is more of the place to do so.

Just want to add I do skip over other's posts as well.. when it pertains to jello shots. :)

Itslate, I have to start by saying that I have had nothing but respect for you on this site and your posts.

However you are completely off base with your post. Well you are right that there are two topics, but other than that, a select few of us are being made out to be villians when really all we are after is free speech.

E-Train no longer, maybe it never has, allows its members to speak freely. If you don't like something well too bad you have to keep it to your self. And I'm not specifically talking about the site though I am speaking of Elliott. We are all here because we love him but oh my if you dare to say that you didn't think that great of this song or that, uho h better watch out because you aren't allowed to criticize him/a performance/an outfit/ a particular hairstyle or anything else.

There is alot of hypocricy (sorry I know its misspelled) on this site. Case in point, that Kat bashing thread that went by by. Suddenly there is a horrible song by the two of them and we're all suppose to pretend that we adore Kat? Some of the ones that did the most trashing of her are now raving about how wonderful she is. They didn't change their opiniono f her, they are only saying so because of her connection to Elliott.

We are being made to be the bad, bad, fans and people in general, because we are saying our feelings, voicing our frustrations. And when we do, thats when threads get moved. I agree threads shouldn't be hijacked and taken over, but do not pretend there aren't concerns by moving the threads so its out of sight and out of mind.

First, I'm in the same mindset as Jackie in that a thread to me flows as a conversation. So in the middle of a thread posted about radio interviews, I expressed frustration that advance information of this type of thing can't be found anywhere. Since I participate in several fan forums/discussion groups, I don't identify myself exclusively as an Etrainer, Flipsider, EManiac or anything else. I'm an Elliott Yamin fan. I'm insatiable where getting Elliott-related news and content is concerned. So it's frustrating for me to see people attempt to make some of this content "exclusive" in some way, or when members here make people feel like they're not being "loyal" to a particular site or forum.

My intention wasn't to disrupt, just to express an opinion. If being outspoken = being labeled a "troll," color me guilty. But I've been posting here two years and find more and more that it's difficult to keep fiddling while Rome is burning, so to speak. There are some serious unresolved issues that have been festering -- I don't need to go into detail as others have already brought this up. I know some GREAT people on each site, but I'm also aware of some poor choices made by some people that have hurt others. Word gets out about these things.

What would lead to healing is by NOT continually sweeping these issues under the rug (e.g. moving "hot topic" threads to hidden places). They don't go away, they just fester and breed contempt for those who refuse to take accountability or respond only with condescension and lack of action. I think some direct communication needs to take place between those involved with a focus towards resolution rather than avoidance. I know that this has been tried without success.

If the "status quo" continues, all that's going to be left of the Etrain is a "clique" of a couple of dozen fans... that doesn't represent what Elliott's about.

CathyEM, yes I totally agree, there are some things that have been festering and all of a sudden many more are being accused like a scape goat for the real problem. Whatever that may be.

My problem is that it is coming up all over, over many threads that start off totally unrelated, spreading like a virus. I truly wish this will be hashed out.

I'll say it again though, it is making it impossible to read some of the news lately. I only have certain times of the day which I like to sit back, catch up with Elliott news... and now it's exciting that he's back in the news in Japan. However, understand it's nearly impossible when the thread goes on and on about something else. One or two posts off topic, okay... but when the whole thread is taken up that other subject... I agree, it needs to be moved.

I think Sk8888 is doing a wonderful job with it. I'd personally hate to have her job.

Understand there may not be many posts, but there are still people that come here as guests to read the threads looking for Elliott news.

itslate, I'm sorry to have to disagree/agree with you again. I agree there are off topic posts, but I'm afraid you're lumping them all together to try and make it seem like a few are disrupting every thread. Let's be honest now, we know that is not happening. It is unfair for you to make it sound so.

I don't remember pointing any fingers. And the pieces of the thread that were moved to OTR are many. But lets be honest, even if it's not an entire thread, it's still always the same subjects that somehow make their way there.

Please, I really enjoy this site, and have for 2 years now. I'm just not sure where it's going lately.

And I want to add, there are many threads that have disagreements with what Elliott is doing, unless unrelated to the subject, it stays there. But my beef is what is unrelated to Elliott.

itslate, with all due respect, I don't think the off-topic posts problem is as widespread as you perceive, either in prevalence among posts or "accusations." I know this issue came up in the thread re: the YouTube posting of video from Japan, and one of the radio threads. Posters simply questioned something within that thread, which then escalated into a related discussion (somewhat off the original tangent but still relevant).

If a thread needs to be "moved," I'm curious where it would "fit" as the topics are very rigid. I don't appreciate having threads that I've posted in a public area moved to an password-protected area where I can't read responses to my comments. I could request access to OTR but have never felt the need. I'm staying out of there on principle at this point.

I feel like I am left with no other option but to jump in and voice my two cents on the many different issues that are being discussed here even though it goes against my grain. I'm am very sure it won't be eloquent, persuasive, or even organized, as many thoughts are flowing through my mind.

First I will address the topic of people not being able to voice their opinion. I think what it comes down to, is people want to voice their opinion and expect to have no disagreement or backlash of any kind. I will continue to speak my mind when I disagree with the notion of ogling Elliott's body parts, which incidentally has been an outcry of women for decades, centuries even, and rightly so. I find it offensive and inappropriate to reduce someone to a mere sexual object. I guess it must be considered okay to do that to a male as opposed to a female. And exactly how many times is it necessary to bring up the length of Elliott's hair, his clothing, his lack of blogging, etc... We already know how each person feels. Must we litter every thread with these insignificant things? It becomes redundant.

Secondly, the issue which Jackie brought up concerning a "pizza lunch" in Richmond. I think several people have said that they tried to resolve the issue privately, even though from the first mention here on the etrain, everyone in attendance at this lunch has been implicated in some kind of wrong doing. I have not received ONE pm to ask me anything about the lunch, or my involvement and/or participation in what has been described. I have however received nasty pm's, even somewhat threatening in nature, that were accusatory, from people who were not present so they have no firsthand knowledge of anything. Also someone in this thread has mentioned that they are disappointed in "those involved". This person was someone I had considered a friend. We had shared an online friendship for well over a year on Moosak and talked almost daily. When Moosak folded, we conversed through myspace and here. We even met once, share nice conversation, and even hugs. Not ONCE has this person come to me and asked for any clarification or if I was involved in any wrong doing. I am terribly let down and disappointed that our friendship meant no more to you than that.

As far as this matter goes, I choose not to defend myself other than saying, I hope my reputation here speaks for itself. I have been kind to every single person here. I make sure to greet any newcomers. I try very hard to include everyone in conversations. I try to respond to every post that is directed at me. I try not to offend with anything I post. I often make apologies, if I feel that I inadvertently have done that. Not just privately, but publicly.

I will allow people to draw their own conclusions. I also, will not address this matter again in anyway. I have done nothing wrong. I leave this thread with my integrity intact. I will carry on with my Elliott love and admiration.

btw, I used spell check this time which I forgot to do in a previous post I submitted in haste. Now maybe my typo's won't be mocked.

So its ok for the regulars like yourelf to voice their frustration but not everyone else? Are you feeling picked on and upset for some reason?

Imagine how the "trolls" are feeling as we are being villinafied.

Well, now...I don't recall anyone in this thread speaking of Elliott's body parts. Nor have I ever mentioned them at this site. I haven't even discussed his hair, his clothes, etc. here that I can recall except to maybe to say he's looking mighty fine or something to that effect. If someone can find a post, please feel free to point it out to me. I stuck up and drooled about the white scene in the OW video when many others couldn't stand it. I'm guilty of that much.

It is my right however, if I chose to, to discuss whatever body part/s, whether they are Elliott's or not at any length I choose to at another site in a private thread that accepts that type of posting. Let's get real, it happens all over the place....not just about Elliott. There are fanfics on Cookie's site, Taylor's...those are the only ones I have any knowledge of. Haven't wrote one myself but I sure have enjoyed some of the creative and talented writing I have read.

Those that did nothing wrong shouldn't have to worry about anything now should they? If you have a clear conscience and are able to sleep well at night knowing you did nothing to invade someone's privacy or hurt them...then all is good in your world. If super sleuths didn't access private threads just to see what other fansite posters were discussing in those private threads then they wouldn't know about any discussions on body parts and/or other controversial subjects there. Don't people realize most that stuff is all in fun and not taken seriously. Those that are offended just don't need to be reading that stuff in the first place. It's their right to be disgusted or whatever as much as it is for others to enjoy. No one that I'm aware of is being forced to read naughty stuff at any fansite.

I haven't tried to lump all fans in one big pot...must I say again, that I find there are many truely wonderful people here. I'd hope others would do the same. I enjoy it when someone wants to call me to task. If I'm way of base or wrong about something, I am more than willingly to apologize. It's not like I've never been wrong in my life and haven't had to apologize.

Linda-I'm sorry if you feel mocked about your mispelling...I happen to like that "new " word whether it's in the dictionary or not. And I'm not being a smartass...I'm totally serious about it. So, I'm sorry if it made you feel bad cuz I think I used it in a post.

ETA- I love Elliott just as much today as I did 2 years ago, if not more...since I've seen him concert since that time. I will always be a fan and hope he produces great music for years to come.

Jackie, I have no idea what happened w/ you & what was said, but I am sorry that you were hurt like that.

I have always been one that speaks my mind here. Sometimes my opinion is the complete opposite of the thread I post in, but I have never felt like I couldn't post what I felt.

I do not feel that ANY of you ladies are trolls, or have ever been guilty of trolling any threads I read. (& if any of you are male, PLEASE forgive my assumption!)

We all are fans of Elliott & that should matter before anything. It doesn't matter what Elliott site anyone frequents...at least Elliott fans are still active & passionate about him! (Lord willing, it will remain that way for years! :) )

Linda, spellcheck is overrated in my world. I misspell more often than not, but tis true, I have created some very fun words! heehee But yeah, it is never fun to be made of. I hate that you felt put down or made fun of. :(

Lack of Elliott news seems to put all of us on edge, least IMO.

Personally, I love Etrain, I love the emoticons & think a positive, upbeat attitude is pretty dayum awesome! Yet, I still respect those who do not like a 'puppy dogs & rainbow' attitude & appreciate/expect that the same sentiment be returned.

I hope everyone can reach an understanding & pray that all we Elliott fans can enjoy the success of our favorite American Idol alum together.

Linda, it would be nice if people could voice their opinion without the tag-team becoming so defensive that the poster actually goes away because they feel ganged up on. It’s OK for someone not to like a particular song, or question his choices of self-promotion (or lack there of). Just because someone does those things doesn’t mean they aren’t as devoted a fan or they deserve to be batted down. If someone posts “I never liked the song You Are The One” instead of someone asking what it is about it they don’t think works or asking is it because you feel the market won’t embrace it, they are jumped on with 10 posts that insinuate that roses grow out of Elliott’s ass and sunshine was made specifically to shine upon him and how dare they not like anything he does when it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that he is perfection personified. Elliott has said on several occasions that he has no need to surround himself with “yes-men” and that his favorite judge on idol was Simon because he gave honest opinions. He’s not going to be crushed if he discovered someone had a contrary opinion, yet many here act as though he needs to be constantly protected.

Women have also been throwing their panties to rock-stars since Elvis perfected the bump and grind up on the stage. Go ahead and be outraged when some of us have other ideas about him rather than Mothering him, but remember that right up there tied with the artistry, the reason men even aspire to make music is because it drives women wild.

(I don’t really get it though, partly it offends you and partly you post that THUD guy every time a hot new picture surfaces.)

I don’t appreciate the hair and clothing talk so much myself, but you know what, this site isn’t about me. It’s not about you. It’s about ALL of Elliott’s fans, or at least it should be, and if someone brings up his hair again, or his teeth, again, well, we don’t need to respond to it if we don’t want to. Maybe somebody else here will feel like responding to it, so just let it pass. It doesn’t need to be your personal mission to provide an opinion on every single post made. I’m not interested in many redundant posts, so I don’t respond to them. Nobody is making you partake in conversations you don’t want to have or are sick of. But the “regulars” who may be sick of certain topics are not this whole site or his entire fanbase.

.

The “pizza lunch issue” has never been brought to light on this board until some of the people who participated in that incident got indignant about internet privacy being violated, which, for obvious reasons, I found laughable. It was never my intention to bring what happened to me out in the public here, but reading those posts about ‘what I post here better stay here’ and so on just lit me up. I think most would understand why.

You are let down? You? Can you imagine for a minute how let down and disappointed I was when I found out all of you, who I also thought were my friends, sat around having a hen-session about something intensely personal in my life? And then embellished it? And then passed judgment about me? And then concluded that my erroneous behavior is so disrespectful to Elliott? You’ve got to be kidding me. Tell me about your disappointment, Linda, you poor thing.

But the issue with what happened at that lunch is secondary to what is happening each and every day on this site. The E-Train is Elliott’s only official anything, and it needs to be preserved. All of his fans must feel welcome here and people can’t continue to be chased away and run off or you’ll have nothing left here but a handful of Stepford fans all sitting around cooing over every move Elliott makes.

I wish we could all just adore him however we feel like adoring him without offending one another. I loved your post, and thank you.

Am been reading these posts with some interest, not understanding it all, but
as a long time member of the E train, it makes me just sad, just sad, and a bit confused how this has all transpired to hurt feelings, disappointments and violations of privacy, and misunderstandings. Tolerance is a powerful thing, imo and the ability to set aside differences for a common interest, for the promotionn of this guy, Mr Elliott Yamin, isn't that what this is all about?
I am sorry that you have been hurt Jackie, I can feel your hurt, and have enjoyed your posts over the past several months, you seem like a really cool person I hope to meet someday.


Honestly, doesn't the E train have room for all of Elliott's fans, those who lust for him, those who want to mother him, the rainbow and flower people, the cynics, the amused. the disgruntled ? heck, I have probably been all of these things, one time or another on this site. I still adore the guy, but at times, I had questioned what is going on, what is coming next, etc, etc, etc,
At the end of the day, I am still his fan, pure and simple

I'm at a loss as to how this relates to the topics being discussed in this thread, however - the fact that you feel free to speak your mind whenever you take the notion should apply to eveyone who posts at eTrain, sadly that isn't the case. How often are your posts moved to Off The Record (other than the posts responding to us trolls) if you have a differing opinion?

So your opinion is that once Jackie found out that her privacy had been invaded, extremely personal information spread that had nothing to do with Elliott or eTrain, form rules of another Elliott site broken and disregarded, and the fact that HER personal business became lunch gossip at a eTrain gathering that involved not only eTrainers but also a mod for eTrain - that it was HER place to contact each and every person in attendance to find out what if any role they played in the smear campaign?? What happened goes against EVERYTHING] the eTrain claims to be about. Contacting Jackie would have been the first thing that came to mind after this incident if I had been in attendance - to make her aware of the personal information these people had stolen from another site about her and discussed openly at lunch. This site has been tarnished by the actions of some of its members/mod/s, the very members who claim to promote, support and do whatever is best for Elliott.
Sadly, in the end when all the hurt feelings are over and done with and things have gone back to how they once were, it is Elliott that suffers from this as so many people have been turned off by his official site and the way it's managed.

Consider yourself lucky that it was only your spelling mocked and not your personal life.

I've given up on trying to relate anything to Elliott or his team. The only contact would be thru eTrain minded individuals who don't consider Elliott fans as a whole. This makes me sad for Elliott - there is a whole other world outside of eTrain, a huge huge base of Elliott fans who are ignored because as Georgia said "They aren't identified as eTrainers" truly sad.

It seems like many people feel personally attacked/offended and that is not a good thing. Optimistic realism is probably the best bet because we all have such divergent opinions and personalities. I respect and appreciate every woman and man in this forum because we all contribute and evolve this place by our words and actions. There haven't been as many people logging onto the site and posting regularly as in the past. And whatever your opinion on the issues discussed in this thread, this is a fact that should give all of us pause to think how our words and actions affect those around us.

Constructive criticism, IMHO, is a beautiful thing because it helps push you to a higher level of achievement. Some of my best progress I've made in my life has derived from honest mentors who helped to identify and then improve the areas with which I needed it. Healthy and constructive criticism for Elliott and for this site will hopefully have a similarly positive result. As long as we can maintain respect for one another as people, we can have tough discussions that end up being beneficial for the majority rather than just a specific group. First and foremost, all of us are Elliott fans who are here to discuss, learn more about, and keep up with the latest news. (I admit, though, I write a lot in the off-topics forum too lol, but variety is the spice of life as the addage says).

What happened to Jackie does not reflect well on the site and I feel bad for her. To be frank, this is why I do not post pictures of myself, family, or very personal information anywhere on the internet. I might say general things like being a College student, major etc, but not anything very personal. Not here, myspace, or any other social site I belong to. Etrain and these social sites are public domain with which anyone can access (as far as my knowledge). Anyway, I'm sorry that you were hurt Jackie and I hope you will forgive and keep on posting here. You are a great person.

Shatner8's post upthread hits the nail on the head, IMO. This can and should be a place where everyone is welcome. I love reading posts that give an innovative approach or great solution to a problem I hadn't thought of. That usually is what comes from dissent from someone who is unhappy with the status quo. It doesn't matter whether you are perpetually optimistic with all things Elliott or like providing commentary/constructive criticism. I think there is still a certain level of defensiveness from what happened S5 here and that has turned into calling amazing/fellow Elliott fans trolls.....which IMHO is wrong.

It would be incredible to see more traffic here and new names begin to post regularly. Maybe all of us can come together as a community to help make that happen by addressing these issues? That way all people can feel like they are being heard and make the necessary changes that enhance the community. The wounds are still really apparent on both "sides", but maybe we can realize there is only one side as Elliott fans?

TROLLS?!!!!!
The last time I saw any trolls, was over on the scary boards, particularly towards the end of season 5. And they were out in force. So much so, that I am surprised they didnt start their own website"believeittoyoursouliamatroll.com"
And of course, every now and then, someone will post a thread with porn and such, but not very often. and it always gets deleted asap. But i can think of NO etrainer, past or present, who i would even consider troll-like. None. Just because someone agrees to disagree at times, in no way does that make them a troll. In my opinion, everyone here on the etrain is a die hard Elliott fan. Who would want to be here otherwise. so lets all take a deep breath, sit back,, relax, and make this site like it was back in the day. we can agree to disagree, thats what makes this world keep spinning.
:chloe: :chloe: :chloe: :chloe: :chloe: :chloe: :chloe: :chloe:

I found what I consider to be a much better article on forum etiquette.

The use of the words "trolling" and "trolls" in this thread has really bothered me as I have always taken troll to mean someone who is not an active member of the board who suddenly appears and whose sole intent is to cause trouble. I know of absolutely no one on Etrain who fits this description.

In my opinion this article is great. I think it is worthy of its own topic. I'll let one of the moderators decide that.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...oard.html?cat=4

EDITED TO ADD:

SoulMusicRocks, I think your post is wonderful.

Chloe, I was writing my response while yours was posting and was surprised to see it between mine and SoulMusicRock's post after I hit the Submit button.