:protest:

Ya know, I hate to think what people new to this board must think when they read all of the tit-for-tat regarding various Elliott topics. If it were me and I was new to the E-experience, I'd book out of here fast, thinking this was rather an immature place to be. It isn't, of course, but that would be my first impression.

We are going to disagree on certain subjects, that's a guarantee. Opposing viewpoints are great until they denigrate so much that the dissension overtakes the thread. Creating a thread to opine when things get heated is actually a tongue-in-cheek move to keep things from reaching a boiling point, and the mods are free to delete this thread if they deem it inappropriate. BUT, if you really find a topic THAT unbearable, please come here to state your displeasure (with respect, pls). Please don't bring down a topic that other members seem to enjoy. That really isn't fair. The moderators are here to keep things in check and if they determine something is out of line, they'll take action, as they have in the past. We each have our opinions and that's all it is,
YOUR OPINION, MY OPINION.

Now everyone...group hug ---> :grouphug:

Good idea, ispeakyaminese.
and by the way i love your name. :P



but the only compliant i have is that there are too many complants.
Like you, ispeakyaminese, i think that everyone has their opinion,
so sure, people are going to dissagree, but we are here for conversation,
so keep it nice and try to have some fun here with the fellow E-Trainers!


:D

Don't lose heart kiddo! :glomp:

This is a good idea! Let out all the negativity HERE---no need to ruin the fun of other topics. ;) (So I've done that once or twice...I am ready to reform my ways!)

Ahh... Same here!

For now I have no ranting. But I'm sure it won't be too long. ;)
I'll keep this thread in mind.

What are you talking about? :blink:

I think this calls for a:



I guess a moderator would be able to post the green face icon on the topic. I have a lot gripes brewing but right now I'm :banghead: until I can express my gripes. Better yet if I just say the heck with my gripes and not even go there. I haven't decided.

This thread is a very good idea. My problem I've had is people who are becoming mean-spirited and start to use personal attacks in their posts because they disagree with an opinion we have. I was trying to make the point in the "Other AI Contestants" area that we should stay united as Elliott fans and not bring up a certain topic as much (CoughKatharineCough) if it is going to turn into a he said/she said kind of thing. I was even accused by one member of being a "Kat fan with ulterior motives" and they made this blatantly clear by using one of the the phrases I used in a previous post to make sure I knew they were speaking to me. Now to me, this is all uncalled for, and I think it actually a great idea that people post updates about other contestants. Still, you can see an obvious trend that the ratio of Katharine threads to other contestants is completely disporportionate with her having multiple threads that seem to turn into a veritable bash fest. I find this to place Elliott fans in a negative image while most of us are not, and I feel furthermore that it alienates people from this board who like Elliott and Katharine. I was told "not to read those because this was an Elliott board". I just feel like people lose respect for eachother in threads related to Katharine because of strong opinions, and it is not a matter of cenorship. It is a matter of respect because it has gone from criticism to just being downright mean and finding anything that will place Katharine in a bad light and I find this to be trivial and childish. I am an Elliott fan first, but I like Kat's voice. I do not like some of the things she says and does during interviews as such, but the way people speak about her is really sad to me. That's all.

There is a similar topic started called "Rant and Rave" I don't know if they have the same intentions as this one but here's the link to in anyway.

Sorry that wasn't a gripe.

http://etrainstation.com/index.php?showtopic=628

Actually this might be a good idea, as long as THIS thread doesn't become the tit-for-tat also. I'm afraid it might.

My real concern is for Elliott. What must he be thinking if he visits this board and finds speculation about him and his girlfriend, family and friends. So much is very sophomoric. I would want to discuss something as Elliott would.

I will say, I visited a Taylor site and the people there are very active. There where close to 600 people on it. I've noticed our member activity is getting less and less. I wonder if it is just because of this problem we are talking about here. We are usually around 150 at the highest. That is sad when you see how many came over from AI.

What puzzles me is that so many have pretty much jumped ship to another message board who have a Forum that is private and publicly bash away at people who are here on this message board... including moderators. I blame that on moderators who have no scruples over there and allow a bash fest to occur which they call free speech.

One member here took a private message from a moderator here and posted it in Yaminions. Nice huh? NOT!

How would you like someone to do that to you?

What ever happened to common courtesy and manners? As long as talking about Elliott isn't oppression, then I'm staying here.... as long as I'm allowed.

On another note, they seem to hone in on the controversial thread and post nowhere else? What does that tell you? Smells trollish to me.

I saw that too, Gypsy. And I agree with every word you just "said"!!

The reason the Kat threads on the AI board are disproportinately larger in number than other AI contestants is directly related to the latest rash of articles and releases about her that are controversial. It is news, hot topics, people would like to discuss it.

I guess my gripe is not being able to discuss it without people feeling offended. I only like to discuss what is newsworthy. If there were press releases about Paris for instance, then the Paris threads will go up and i may find myself wishing to discuss the article or news with others freely. Or Kellie. Or Ace. But i have not seen all of the bad press about any of the others. Taylor has some, but i have not seen anything about the others.

When an Idol is not knee deep in controversy they are not spoken of in controversial topics.

Personally, I have nothing against Kat fans, but i dont know why we can't discuss these latest developments. I dont agree with some of the things, however, that you said you were told about your posts. You have as much right to post here as anyone else.

As for the discussions about Elliott's personal life, that is a bit different than discussing a press release aobut another contestant. That is far more personal. however, so long as the discussions are not vulgar or offensive than I would guess they are allowed too. I personally dont find myself all that interested in who he is dating, unless it ever happens to be myself. LOL Elliott is young and a hot tamale, he is going to be surrounded by beautiful women for quite some time now. I am not going to drive myself insane wondeirng if he is dating one of them everytime i see a pic. And i am sure we will see many more pics. But some people like to speculate about that, and i guess that is fine so long as no one is disrespected.

As for an underground bashing forum, i can't imagine why on earth that is allowed. I have no interest in bashing any members, in public or in private.

Hmmm....who cares what people are doing on another Elliott board? What does that have to do with what's going on here, on E-train? I have noticed that there aren't nearly as many people logged onto this website as there used to be, and that could simply be because there isn't that much news about Elliott these days. Now that the tour has started, I'm sure people will pop in....but seriously, this isn't the only place to find information or to find Elliott's fans, so why not explore? Gyspy, are you a member of said forum? You seem to know a whole lot about it. I can say that I am a member of the fansite, and I enjoy it there very much, and I do not just live on this forum that you so shamelessly speak of. Doxie, for clarification, it isn't an underground bashing forum. There are just some topics there that some may consider puke-worthy, or not suitable for younger E-fans.

I just had to say that. Great idea for a post.

Guys, gals, I want to quickly to rehash something I'm trying to get everyone to "hear":

When you have gripes about particular posters, PLEASE PM a mod and do NOT gripe about individuals "aloud" in this public forum. You're welcome to gripe in this thread as much as you'd like, but take it to PM if you take issue with someone specific. We (the mods) do not condone sharing or spreading ill-will toward ANY of our current members.

In regards to discussion about other forums: there is nothing wrong with stating your opinions (positive or negative) about ANY forum or site. As long as no one is taking direct quotes from a forum marked "private" and posting them out here, you can gripe all you want. My only reminder is, as with anything, please keep your words respectful if someone does not share your sentiments...

Keep in mind, as per the OP, this is just a "gotta gripe" thread in our general "Group Huddle" board. Your gripes do NOT have to be related to American Idol and Elliott; ANY gripe is welcome here!

And what are you doing here? You are publicly "bashing" others. It works both ways. And just for your clarification, when YOU joined on the Funky Forum, you heeded the warning of, "Content may be offensive to some posters." Looks like you missed the boat there.

I have a problem with people who talk smack about the private forum when they don't even give a second thought about reading the warning. It's there. However vague it may be, it's still a warning. If you are offended, don't go in.

Calling out members, are we? Well, I have to say this has been done on both sides, one even taking my signature from that site and posting it for all to see over here, for example.

Hmm, people seem to lurk all the time in the Funky Forum and spend their time all day there, sometimes even posting. Does that make them trolls?

A gang? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

What part of my post is considered a threat????

I am a member and have only posted a couple of times. KateyKat told me about the FF forum. It's one thing to post pages and pages of a "girlfriend" bash, but I couldn't believe what I saw in underground and then further discussed in WW about moderators and members of this forum. I haven't been there often until recently. I've seen enough and want no part of the bash fest that some people thrive on.

As for your clarification to Doxie, it sure looked like an underground bashing forum to me. But some people want to come here and pick apart one post I make that is, in fact, true of what goes on there. Disgusting.

Content that I'd EXPECT to possibly be offensive would be in the form of x-rated stories, photos - things of that nature.

So you have a problem about people who talk smack about that private forum? Well who knew it would be brimming over with bashing?

I'm sure some people lurk here all the time who are members of Yaminions and only post when there is controversy here.

I know I'm going to get a lot of crap about this. I'm either trying to oppress people or im being too cheery. I guess I find it important to say that it's not like I don't know what I'm getting myself into.

I just want to say that I find it shameful that a certain group of people from either site can't simply move on. There is never going to be a happy medium, so why can't all those involved just drop it? let it go? stop? get over the fact that both places are message boards and in the big picture mean absolutely nothing.

I understand that the posters over here use a lot of smileys, get easily annoyed about topics that might be "controversial" and defend things they might know nothing about. I can see why that would be fodder for any group, honestly. I also understand that the posters over there have a private forum for their PRIVATE matters, and shouldn't concern any of us. Whatever they want to say is their American, God given right. Why should any of us try to change that? Who cares if they have negative/differing opinions about... anything! Does it affect the way you love Elliott? IF it does, then the problems you are having are much bigger than any moderator or war of words/wits can fix.

I'm a perpetual peacemaker. I know it makes a lot of people sick. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that these kind of threads break me. so why read them right? I typically don't.. I like to stay away.. but its 4:30.. I have insomnia and I have stumbled upon this same tired topic too many times. So, if this makes me a loser to some of you, oh well. I had to get this off of my chest.

I will return now to my E-train oblivion (tour threads!! yay) where im happy and carefree.. GD tree hugger! By the way... I'm not here to stifle your right to debate. I'm simply here to speak my piece.. and I'm gone. I know that you guys can respect that.

For the record, the bashing of the mods began when there was mass banning here. Every person who posted in both places was banned from here, even if they said nothing bad about anyone here, and even if they were only members and never posted here once. To put it another way, mods here were making moderating decisions based on peoples membership in the FF. PERIOD. People don't like being banned. People get really upset when they're banned because they take it personally, and they particularly get mad when they're banned for no good reason. THAT is when people started bashing mods here. If not for the mass banning of a couple of weeks ago where everyone, including Crowe, was banned, and the following mass UNbanning, we'd STILL be banned.

Many of you will think that's okay. It's not. It's not okay to ban people simply for being members of another forum. And, again, proof that that was all they were going on in banning people, was the person who was a member of both sites, but never even posted here. Out of curiosity, after everyone was banned, she decided to check her status and found herself banned as well. That's NOT ethical.

DJ Babblefish has a correct view of the situation when he/she writes:

Some of you posters in this thread, are always waiting to jump on anything posted that you don't like. In the thread titled, "Does Elliott Have a New Girlfriend", some of you were beside yourselves, posting rude things like, "Get a life", despite the fact that mods had posted saying the topic was acceptable and that they could understand the interest, and despite the obvious subject line, and despite the green emoticon signaling it would be controversial to some of you. That system was supposedly put in place to accomodate those of us who aren't invested in the Elliott-Amanda relationship, and like to post our excitement over the possibility he's moved on. We asked for something to be done, because YOUR gang swoops into every post YOU don't like, to slap hands, tell people "this isn't our business, we shouldn't post this" and "Let's move on, we don't need this kind of thing", which is nothing more than shutting people down and bullying them. Others just come in to post emoticons poking sticks at each other, or to post, "I'm not getting involved in this. I thought we were through with this", like a bunch of children who are only adding fuel to the flames.

Some of your mods come and sit parked in the FF all night while they're doing their mod duty here. We all take that to mean they're being watched and better be careful of what they say or there will be a price attached. One of the mods even sends posters pm's here, telling of her unhappiness over what she sees posted there. You probably think that's fine, too, but it's not, it's unethical. It's bullying people.

If the mods here would be fairer about whose hands they slap, there wouldn't be so much resentment, too. I was actually told by a mod that a warning comes when a lot of people pm her to complain. That's interesting, because given my views, people could and probably do, pm a mod every time I'm here. That's not decent moderating, by the way. Decent moderating is implementing rules and then FAIRLY and without emotion, implementing those rules in the same way for everyone - and then, without emotion, explaining what the poster did wrong. That doesn't happen here either. You get five pm's filled with venom from a mod, and so unbelievable was one of them, YES! I posted it in the FF, where the mod sits parked all the time. With the way I've been treated here (and note my membership date), you bet I"ve had it.

I don't have a gang, but given the things you've done, there are probably people who are trying to get you to back off. Well, at least there's some decent folks who still post here.

I post this knowing what a complete waste of time it is, but with hope that one person with a brain will read it and actually 'get it'.

I love to travel for the pure sense of adventure that it brings. But, I also pride myself on being an informed traveler--often purchasing more than one guide book for the same city, in order to get a true feel for it before I allow even one foot to step in it. One thing I've noticed about these guide books is that, as much as they present the "best of the best" and "must see's/must do's", there are also pages of "don't go there" or "you must avoid" suggestions, thereby giving the traveler a balanced approach to the new city. And, in my opinion, it is always up to the traveler what suggestions to heed.

As such, I don't believe that presenting only one side of the Elliott fanworld to new or potentially new members would be fair, so a healthy discussion of varying opinions on any thread is what I support. It's also an unreasonable expectation for everything to be happy-happy-joy-joy in here all the time; it doesn't work that way in real life. And, I don't support censorship of any kind, and hope that I don't experience that here.

In other words, although I appreciate this thread, I would hate that it be the only place for members of this site to feel they can express their opinions regarding any subject matter posted in this forum. It'd be what it was probably like living in a communist society where citizens can talk badly about their government only in the privacy of their own homes. Again, I would hate for something like that to be what makes up this fun (so far, for me) forum.

Well, this is my opinion. :)

:goodpost: :goodpost:

To Janizzle you wrote:

Doxie, for clarification, it isn't an underground bashing forum. There are just some topics there that some may consider puke-worthy, or not suitable for younger E-fans.

I apologize if i did not describe it correctly. I have never been there, and honestly people have the right to express whatever they want to. If someone does not like me for instance, and in private wants to discuss their thoughts on me, I have no control over that. Would i prefer no one have a negative view of me? Of course. But that will never happen that everyone will always agree with me all of the time. Heck that would even get boring!

H Bomb was spot on with her post too. General gripes are welcome in public, specific ones in private.

NOw that Elliott has been around longer there are going to continue to be more emerging Elliott forums. All are a little different. ETrain does seem to have a cheerful, playful atmosphere...as DJ said members use more smileys and such, I LIKE THAT! I love to play! Some like a different flavor, nothing wrong with that!

I do have to say that when a member tells another member things like "get over this, end this conversation' or similar, that bothers me. I think those types of statemements should be eliminated. That is not free speech, that is an attempt to thwart free speech. What happens also is the direct opposite of what they hope to acheive. once you tell people to STOP then the topic becomes even more controversial and even MORE people will come to the thread to talk about it. From what i have seen here, the most heated threads are usually the ones where people are told to be quiet. That never works.

So to those who dont like a certain topic, PM a mod with your thoughts and please know that if you try to control the convo you will only aggravate it further and make it last longer.

I see nothing wrong with Gypsy expressing her feelings that she gets when she visits a forum where she sees members (both cross members and not) bashed.i did not see any specific names mentioned...just an overall concern about a forum that is bashing people she knows and maybe even herself. But again i have not been there, so I can't make specific comments.

I would just like to reiterate that I was not trying to end this conversation AT ALL. My posting was simply to state that I would like the negatvity to end because I'm a peaceful person. I think that healthy debate in this case is necessary because a lot of you obviously have a lot of hurt feelings and need to get things out.
Personally, I wish it could end.. but I know that it won't. I'm sorry if my message was misconstrued..
DC.. It is never my intention to offend you or anyone else, I would hope by now you would know me better. I was just adding my 2 cents.. (maybe 5 or 10 cents). :blink:

DJ, Doxie wasn't talking about your post, I'm sure of it. She's seen how some of the posters in this thread, who are doing the complaining, have tried to control threads they don't like, by posting, "Get a life", etc.

I'm sure she'll weigh in, but I know she wasn't directing this toward you.

I guess I was waiting for someone to call me out for being overly optimistic or far too idealistic.
I'm totally aware that I am both of those things and that it's not realistic.. hence "idealistic". I know I sound so corny with the whole "why can't we be friends" crap. I know it.. It probably makes me want to vomit too.

but really... REALLY, I know that it's important for you guys to get these things out. I may be a tree hugger but I also see the benefits in a confrontation or debate. I'm not telling anyone to get a life. I'm not telling anyone to stop, although that might be what I really want. And, thats only because I'm completely lame about disagreements. I really need to take all of my good sportsmanship crap and run far far away... :unsure:

DJ i was not referring to your post. I was referring to many posts i have seen here as of late.

I did not even see that in your original post to be honest!

Heck yeah, I got a gripe...WHEN THE HECK AM I GONNA BE ABLE TO SEE ELLIOTT AGAIN????


*sighhhhhhhhh*

;)

Please never take your good sportsmanship away DJ! I love optimism personally!

Keep huggin dem trees girlfriend! :thumbsup:

ahha.. you know it DC :glomp:

Be careful of splinters tho! :poke: They can poke ya when you hug the tree to tightly.

:glomp: :D just kidding, i had to find a joke in their somewhere. lol

I will have to say, that when someone disagrees with a thread or what is posted there, is not bashing a poster. It's disagreeing. You may not like HOW they disagreed, but they did. That is not suppressing free speech it is utilizing free speech.

When I read or say "get a life." I see it as defending Elliott. My motto is "liberty is not license" to say or do anything you please. Some people would like to defend anything they say using the excuse having the "liberty" to do so.

I would like to think that whatever I post, I would say in front of Elliott's face with his family, friends, and girlfriend standing in front of me. That is what is called propriety. We have lost propiety in our cultures now. It's the ALL ABOUT ME complex. What I want, what I think, what I want to do, is most important to me and should be to you without the least bit of thought of how it affects someone else, especially Elliott.

People have left the public life because of precisely some of these problems. We have lost their talents and expertise in many areas of life.

If you disagree with me fine. However, it will not change my mind or values. I find that so much of the talk in forums such as these, people have some misguided thinking that their opinion will change everyone. My opinion probably will not change yours. Yours will not change mine. I've never seen it in the past and I would be very surprised if I see it here.

There was no "mass banning" and no Croweb "banning". This contention may be related to the inadvertent resetting of permissions and/or configuring the forum into offline mode. It was apparent when I logged on and saw the browser display "OFFLINE" that the latter was the case. On situations like this, I think only the ONE Root admin can override the setting, unless all Admins have been pre-configured to gain access when the forum is on OFFLINE mode.

Well free speech is a loosely used term on message boards, as they are governed by certain rules so you have to ensure you speech falls within those guidelines.

Secondly, Gogo you know i have the utmost respect for you and your posts, what i am referring to tho is hard to deny, that when people are talking amongst themselves in a thread and someone pops in to tell them to get a life, it is going to evoke defensive behavior. Psych 101. Sure, anyone can say that, but there will be consequence, so as long as the poster does not mind the consequence I suppose they can say it.

For me if i see a moderator or even more than one say that a topic is not out of line and to continue away, then i figure that is good enough for me. They know the rules so i let them enforce them. If they say a topic is getting out of hand, i respectfully will steer my convo in another direction. If i were to strongly disagree with them, I will PM them and share my thoughts.

I can honestly say that i have have ruffled feathers on threads where i voiced an opinion about something, and i was not being vulgar or tactless, but was told things like "get a life" and stop saying that. yeah it stirs an emotion in you to hear that. But i try not to take message board's seriously so i try to walk away. But it does make me wince to hear it.

If i told anybody on this thread, no matter what stance they have, to GET OVER IT...then i can expect a backlash. I know before I type the words what type of response i will get. I can only be responsible for what I say. There is from time to time topics that i dont agree with here, but it is not my place I dont think to try to control it.

Well stated, Doxie.

There was a mass banning. You can post that there wasn't but there was, and unless you're a member of the Yaminions who was banned, I don't know how you can even say that you KNOW there wasn't.

Doxie, I couldn't agree with you more.

Maybe I'm the weird one, but if I happen to stumble across a thread that makes me uncomfortable or even angry, I just find the nearest exit. If it's a debate that I think I can add to, I might contribute, but it's not in me to insult the posters, even if IMO they might deserve it, by telling them to stop discussing something because I don't happen to like the topic. And I would never hurl something as blanketly presumptive and insulting as "Get a Life!"

People do have the right to discuss what they choose, as long as the topic and the postings within the topic adhere to the specific guidelines, as Doxie says.

I, for one, am enjoying the debate that is going on in here. :) Very intelligent discussions without going into out-and-out bashing of one another. I think I'm going to grab a bowl of popcorn. BRB...

xzasporated1, I do the same thing. I don't like the thud thread, so I stay out of it (except to look at the pictures).

I really found the "second runner up" thread, regarding Elliott's size, to be offensive. But is it my place to go in there and post that? NO! We all have different comfort levels and I'm sure not going to try and impose mine on people who do enjoy posting about that.

So why others feel they can do this, is unbelievable to me. They can't seem to control themselves. They see a thread or a sentiment they don't like and they CANNOT ignore it. They MUST post. And there are several of us who resent that. If they don't like what they read, they need to move on.

What we're talking about is WAY different than expressing a difference of opinion, and I'm glad to see that some of you actually get that!

I don't see how "get a life" has anything to do with defending Elliott. It's just a mean statement, no smilie faces can cover that up!